New Sketch icons "make pocket sketch, make pad sketch"

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freedman
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Re: New Sketch icons "make pocket sketch, make pad sketch"

Post by freedman »

If a face is selected and you press pad, that face will be padded as normal, but if instead you click the sketch-pad button a sketch will be created and the pad option will be automatically applied to the new sketch, and then the sketch is opened. No paradigm change, no change in the tree, no change to any structure of the App. These two new icons could be an option for advance sketching in preferences.

The comments about clutter, I think this is what the toolbar is all about, tools to help us be efficient. This is something that could potentially be used 100 times a day, I'm sure we can find some other way to clean up the toolbar. Not to pick on something, the Measure tool is 7 icons.....

Here is an example (pic). I want to put a hole in the object but I need to study the area because I don't want to blow thru the edge.
Currently I would need to do this:
1) Click face
2) Create sketch
3) Draw hole
4)Close Sketch
5) Create a pocket
6) Click OK
7)Go to the tree, expand the feature
8) Double click the sketch
9) Ready to work................

Using the new sketch-hole icon it would go like this:
1) Click face
2) Select Sketch-hole
3) draw circle
4) Ready to work .................

In almost every step in the above processes the mouse is moved back and forth, just a lot of extra effort for one hole.
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user1234
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Re: New Sketch icons "make pocket sketch, make pad sketch"

Post by user1234 »

This sounds for me extra unnecessary complicated. First: define the usecase of a sketch before its operation? Where is the benefit? Also i can use a Sketch for a additive or removal boolean operation. Besides that :
freedman wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:33 am I think it's fair to say that pad and pocket are 70% of the feature additions, especially for new users and testing.
70% really? That is extreme subjective. Also why should the workflow follow just testcases. Make no sense to me.


freedman wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:33 am This is much better for me because I normally work in 3D, the hole will appear right away. I waste a bunch of time (and clicks) needing to close the sketch, click the Pocket and then go back into Sketcher to continue to edit the solid.
Just said: the changes must be recomputed, so every move in the sketch, all will be recomputed? That sound like a lag party and not like a usable software. You know you can sectioning while in the sketcher?


Haavard wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:41 am Only if NOTHING is selected, and NO sketch is currently "free" in the tree-view is a new sketch automatically made.
When someone do this in our job, he get hit on the fingers with a hazelnut rod. No sketch is allowed to be placed automatic (and/or in a somehow random way). It must always be 100% adjusted. Here a automatism is an absolutely no go for construction.


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user1234
Haavard
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Re: New Sketch icons "make pocket sketch, make pad sketch"

Post by Haavard »

user1234 wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:38 pm
Haavard wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:41 am Only if NOTHING is selected, and NO sketch is currently "free" in the tree-view is a new sketch automatically made.
When someone do this in our job, he get hit on the fingers with a hazelnut rod. No sketch is allowed to be placed automatic (and/or in a somehow random way). It must always be 100% adjusted. Here a automatism is an absolutely no go for construction.
Did you read my first comment? My proposal is that if nothing is selected, a new sketch is made AND THE SKETCH PLANE SELECTOR is displayed, so you can select which plane or face to sketch on. Not talking about randomly slapping sketches around willy nilly, just reducing number of clicks for simple workflows.

Current workflow:
(Empty document)
- Click new body
- Click new sketch
- Select plane
- Draw sketch
- Close sketch
- Click pad/hole/revolve ect

My proposed additional and optional workflow:
(Empty document)
- Press pad, this creates a new body if none active, and creates a sketch
- Select sketch plane for this sketch
- Draw sketch
- Close sketch, pad is already active, with the newly created sketch in the tree view under Pad.

This reduces the number of operations to select by 50%, does not introduce new types of objects, require new workflow paradigm ect, only makes life easier. Am i missing something?
Haavard
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Re: New Sketch icons "make pocket sketch, make pad sketch"

Post by Haavard »

freedman wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:12 pm Currently I would need to do this:
1) Click face
....
9) Ready to work................

Using the new sketch-hole icon it would go like this:
1) Click face
...
4) Ready to work .................
I'm trying to identify the difference between your proposal and mine. Do you want the sketch-pad to show a pad preview while editing the sketch for example? Or a hole-sketch to show a preview of the result while in sketcher?

(And sorry @freedman if i'm off topic, not my intent to derail your interesting idea. If ours is too different i could ask the moderators to create a separate thread.)
Last edited by Haavard on Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
user1234
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Re: New Sketch icons "make pocket sketch, make pad sketch"

Post by user1234 »

Haavard wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:51 pm Did you read my first comment? My proposal is that if nothing is selected, a new sketch is made AND THE SKETCH PLANE SELECTOR is displayed, so you can select which plane or face to sketch on. Not talking about randomly slapping sketches around willy nilly, just reducing number of clicks for simple workflows.
No i have not, sorry.

Haavard wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:51 pm My proposed additional and optional workflow:
(Empty document)
- Press pad, this creates a new body if none active, and creates a sketch
- Select sketch plane for this sketch
- Draw sketch
- Close sketch, pad is already active, with the newly created sketch in the tree view under Pad.
I do not really like it, but have nothing against it (since i must not use it). But should work on all additive, single sketched based operation, which is only Revolution as i see here on my opened FreeCAD.

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user1234
Haavard
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Re: New Sketch icons "make pocket sketch, make pad sketch"

Post by Haavard »

user1234 wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:00 pm I do not really like it, but have nothing against it (since i must not use it). But should work on all additive, single sketched based operation, which is only Revolution as i see here on my opened FreeCAD.
Why not subtractive? Of course not with an empty document and no body, but it should work for all single sketch operations right?
user1234
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Re: New Sketch icons "make pocket sketch, make pad sketch"

Post by user1234 »

Haavard wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:02 pm Why not subtractive? Of course not with an empty document and no body, but it should work for all single sketch operations right?
Then yes. Also it would be continuous, since you can use datum objects from the this dialog.


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drmacro
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Re: New Sketch icons "make pocket sketch, make pad sketch"

Post by drmacro »

And if I choose to use the sketch to do a pocket and reuse the sketch later to do a pad?
:mrgreen:
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freedman
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Re: New Sketch icons "make pocket sketch, make pad sketch"

Post by freedman »

I got some time to do a little macro work. Here is a video; in the start of the video the front face has been selected, looks kind of odd.
Key points:
1) When I click on "Sketch-pocket", notice the tree and how I end up in Sketch edit mode with a blank sketch ready to draw.
2) I do all this work and my mouse hardly moves.
3) I added a couple sketcher tool defaults for quick changes, create circle and rectangle.
4) Notice how the feature is created right after the sketch elements are completed.

For this demo I have another macro running that keeps me in 3D perspective. Much better viewing.

Doing a Sketch-Pad is more difficult because of the single solid but I have a plan.

What you see here is 90% copying right out of the Pyton console, I just change the order and add a few things together. The big change is telling FreeCAD what feature you want before you sketch. Not a big deal!

I will post the macro after I use it for a while to check it out.

I will discuss other options as soon as get my point across. :)
Thanks
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chrisb
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Re: New Sketch icons "make pocket sketch, make pad sketch"

Post by chrisb »

I see now what you mean. Currently this approach is still a bit dangerous, because you are attaching sketches to faces, which makes them prone to fail due to topological naming issues. Do you plan to add a length field to the macro?
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