Which issues will start to arrive with the splitting of complexity?

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grd
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Re: Which issues will start to arrive with the splitting of complexity?

Post by grd »

user1234 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:58 pm I have and make no sense to me. If you do not want to use it, just do not use it. The good thing is, that you are not forced to use it.
Christ. The problem is that you started with CATIA. But most of the new guys don't. They start with SW, Creo, Inventor, F360. That is the problem.
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Re: Which issues will start to arrive with the splitting of complexity?

Post by drmacro »

grd wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:09 pm
user1234 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:58 pm I have and make no sense to me. If you do not want to use it, just do not use it. The good thing is, that you are not forced to use it.
Christ. The problem is that you started with CATIA. But most of the new guys don't. They start with SW, Creo, Inventor, F360. That is the problem.
And each and everyone of them should be directed to this: https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=69960

FreeCAD is not any of those software. It is not intended to replace or compete with any of those software.

We users can offer help to folks like you, and those others you refer to, by telling them how things work in FreeCAD. And how to take advantage of the what FreeCAD has to offer.

There are confusing things, as you've mentioned. Unfortunately, we can offer help, we can offer the wiki...but, what you see is what you get. FreeCAD is an ever changing, organic by nature, thing. Will these confusing things change? Maybe, but, they aren't changing tomorrow or soon.
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Re: Which issues will start to arrive with the splitting of complexity?

Post by user1234 »

grd wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:09 pm Christ. The problem is that you started with CATIA. But most of the new guys don't. They start with SW, Creo, Inventor, F360. That is the problem.
And, that is a problem? And @drmacro, who (as far i remember correctly) who never seen CATIA have also no problem with that. Also do you really think that is any kind of valid argument? You can not take that serious! Also there are many people, the have no issue with that. Here come mostly people, the need help. People they do not need help, are (mostly) not here.


And i used Creo (Direct Modeling) the first time, i also had to learn that (because it was extreme different). And as i used NX the first time, i had to learn that. And as i used KiCAD the first time, i had to learn that. Same with different OS, E-Mails clients, browsers, taxes rules, cars (can be very different), forklifts, cranes, .....

A serious CAD is not an ad hoc use program, never was, never will be.

Greetings
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obelisk79
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Re: Which issues will start to arrive with the splitting of complexity?

Post by obelisk79 »

grd wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:09 pm Christ. The problem is that you started with CATIA. But most of the new guys don't. They start with SW, Creo, Inventor, F360. That is the problem.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments here... but are you implying that FreeCAD should become like SW, Creo, Inventor and F360 because a high percentage of newcomers are used to the paradigms followed by these other mainstream competitors? Again, I find your arguments leaving me scratching my head, so your frustration lies in your inability or refusal to adjust to another paradigm/approach to how a CAD should work and instead conflate it with 'COMPLEXITY!'. Surely you must understand how this looks from the perspective of those who don't have the same problems.
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Re: Which issues will start to arrive with the splitting of complexity?

Post by grd »

drmacro wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:29 pm FreeCAD is not any of those software. It is not intended to replace or compete with any of those software.
The problem is also that I value simplicity and what I see instead is not simplicity, and I think that I am not alone. Of course anyone can learn FC, but at what cost? How much hours does it take to even start learning FC and how many hours to be fluent with it? What is the cost of that?

When you can have simple things --optionally-- the learning curve could just be that less high. With part, assy and drawing it could be just a little bit easier. And also I mentioned material and selection of export that both could be just a little bit easier.

My background is Pro/E, NX and SW btw and I worked my entire life with these SW packages. And yes, I can be a bit grumpy, but I think that I have a point here.
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Re: Which issues will start to arrive with the splitting of complexity?

Post by quiret »

grd wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:59 pm My background is Pro/E, NX and SW btw and I worked my entire life with these SW packages. And yes, I can be a bit grumpy, but I think that I have a point here.
You seem to have experience in this field. I am curious why you chose to give FreeCAD a try? I suspect it could be that the price of commercial software has turned you off somehow, or?
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Re: Which issues will start to arrive with the splitting of complexity?

Post by drmacro »

grd wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:59 pm
drmacro wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:29 pm FreeCAD is not any of those software. It is not intended to replace or compete with any of those software.
The problem is also that I value simplicity and what I see instead is not simplicity, and I think that I am not alone. Of course anyone can learn FC, but at what cost? How much hours does it take to even start learning FC and how many hours to be fluent with it? What is the cost of that?

When you can have simple things --optionally-- the learning curve could just be that less high. With part, assy and drawing it could be just a little bit easier. And also I mentioned material and selection of export that both could be just a little bit easier.

My background is Pro/E, NX and SW btw and I worked my entire life with these SW packages. And yes, I can be a bit grumpy, but I think that I have a point here.
Hmm...well, yeah, you used all the software you mention. Me too. I started in CAD in the 1970's. I was a certified trainer and consultant in several mentioned so far. And a developer for some of them as well. (Not mention some that most here have never heard of and a few PCB CAD offerings.)

Frankly? It didn't take me much effort to learn FreeCAD...and I started when it was far less than it is now.

I've noted and argued many times that there are plenty of confusing things and other warts with FreeCAD. It takes some experience with it to shake the other workflows one gets used to and acquire new workflow (and different ways and words). Understanding a few key things and then the "different" is, well, just different. If on the other hand you continually chafe at the differences then the learning can be quite frustrating.
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Re: Which issues will start to arrive with the splitting of complexity?

Post by grd »

Okay. So now that everyone has gone back to their senses, I want to ask the question again:
And now the question: Which issues will start to arrive? What am I missing?
With that question I mean: What can go wrong if this feature is implemented? And what hooks are gonna burden it?

Because I believe that the structure of today, with everything implemented in one size fits all is not correct (sorry). I believe that the separation with part, assy and drawing to be more correct. At least make it optional.
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Re: Which issues will start to arrive with the splitting of complexity?

Post by drmacro »

grd wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:53 am Okay. So now that everyone has gone back to their senses, I want to ask the question again:
And now the question: Which issues will start to arrive? What am I missing?
With that question I mean: What can go wrong if this feature is implemented? And what hooks are gonna burden it?

Because I believe that the structure of today, with everything implemented in one size fits all is not correct (sorry). I believe that the separation with part, assy and drawing to be more correct. At least make it optional.
Your version of part is a body.

Your version assy is any number of user preferred workflows. Use the one that suited your desires.

Instill don't understand what you imagine "drawing" is? Are you referring to TechDraw?

Assemblies? I have used all of the assembly workbenches. All of the projects I've done have many components in many files, sub assemblies in separate files, and top assembly files.
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Re: Which issues will start to arrive with the splitting of complexity?

Post by onekk »

grd wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:00 am Please take a look at what I said earlier https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=70122

The con is that multiple bodies are not allowed, so the Part WB can be very limited.
Part WB is dealing with the "modelling engine" it has "no sense" of blaming OCCT because it won't make more solids than one.

If you are speaking about Part Design WB I don't have an answers as I'm modelling with scripting and prefer to model with Part WB and few others.

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