Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

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Jee-Bee
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by Jee-Bee »

Kunda1 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:11 pm Oh my bad. Apologies.
No problem as far as i know is everybody still alive ;)
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adrianinsaval
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by adrianinsaval »

I know it is old... but with my amount of usage it is not needed to refresh is it weekly ;)
perfectly understandable, in this case I do recommend updating anyways though since there was heavy bug fixing in the last stages of 0.20 development, if you're using it you'll have to get asm3 through the addon manager though.
No problem as far as i know is everybody still alive ;)
+1 :lol: love this response, good to keep in mind when drama comes around (not saying it was the case here)
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by Kunda1 »

Jee-Bee wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:20 pm No problem as far as i know is everybody still alive ;)
:lol:
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by grd »

Sorry to be late to the party but I completely agree with what Jee-Bee said. Completely!

The problem with FC is a lot! It is not only the look, it is the feel. And why does everything needs to be placed in ONE file? Why not in part, assy and drawing separately? That makes everything a lot smoother. It makes handling a lot easier. Yes, I know that I can turn things down but that is not what I am talking about.

Me, I am a grumpy old man too, I know, but putting everything into ONE big file makes everything a mess.

And there are thousands of issues more too, some of them are serious. What FC really need is the development effort of Blender, or LibreOffice. That is what is lacking. When you only have volunteers, this is what you get. Some of the developers are serious, others are not, but most of them are busy.

That is the problem with FC. I welcome everyone from Fusion360 but they need to take a lot of time learning FC, I can guarantee you that.
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drmacro
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by drmacro »

grd wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:03 pm Sorry to be late to the party but I completely agree with what Jee-Bee said. Completely!

The problem with FC is a lot! It is not only the look, it is the feel. And why does everything needs to be placed in ONE file? Why not in part, assy and drawing separately? That makes everything a lot smoother. It makes handling a lot easier. Yes, I know that I can turn things down but that is not what I am talking about.

Me, I am a grumpy old man too, I know, but putting everything into ONE big file makes everything a mess.

And there are thousands of more issues too, some of them are serious. What FC really need is the development effort of Blender, or LibreOffice. That is what is lacking. When you only have volunteers, this is what you get. Some of them are serious, others are not, but most of them are busy.

That is the problem with FC. I welcome everyone from Fusion360 but they need to take a lot of time learning FC, I can guarantee you that.
And, I and many others, disagree with much of what you say. FC is not that bad to learn...if one wants to learn.

If the problems are so serious, I doubt so many would be able to accomplish what is seen all over the place with all this seriousness.
Sure there are things missing and maybe the workbenches could be more well thought out, but, that is what organic growth brings.

Most see TNP as a big deal. Others don't seem too bothered. Why is that?

As for everything in one file. I guess maybe I'll have to stop all the multi-file projects I'm currently working on and re-do all the multi-file project I've done in the past. ;)

It would, indeed, be nice to have a single comprehensive assembly workbench. Again, organic growth... :roll:

As for the "lot of time learning" comment. I have to disagree. I have worked with people with no experience in CAD at all and people who are quite knowledgeable in Fusion (and other software). They have learned and progressed to doing rather complicated work in FreeCAD in a matter of days (those with no experience) and hours (for those with experience). Why? TBH, I don't know for sure, but, I have my suspicions.

A lot of it comes from expectations. If, as a new adopter, FC is seen as a toolbox that you need to work at and do some customizations as you go, then it becomes an amazing sandbox to customize to your personal likes. If, on the other hand, FC is expected to be an equivalent to a commercial product, then it is going to a frustrating exercise. Many seem reluctant to make even the minor effort to customize toolbars for their work. What is point of extensible software then?

As for the Blender and LibreOffice. Both of those have a significantly different history. They may be the poster children for FOSS success stories, but, their history (having started with, or early on had, corporate involvement, etc. and evolution to full on management teams with brick-and-mortar offices) would be hard to duplicate. Having corporate sponsors isn't always a panacea. No doubt FreeCAD would benefit from a more managed environment and some number of full time staff. Whether the the Blender/LibreOffice model is right for FreeCAD...who knows.

I don't see why people hold Blender up as a an example of great tools. The UI/UX is cumbersome, if only, because of shear magnitude. It is a huge program that has a mind boggling number of menus, modes, tools, addons, and more. It has a jargon list as big as an encyclopedia. And covers everything from modeling and animation to physics and video editing. It has a learning curve that dwarfs FC.
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by grd »

drmacro wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:58 pm And, I and many others, disagree with much of what you say. FC is not that bad to learn...if one wants to learn.
I agree, but learning this is hard.
If the problems are so serious, I doubt so many would be able to accomplish what is seen all over the place with all this seriousness.
Sure there are things missing and maybe the workbenches could be more well thought out, but, that is what organic growth brings.
I can note out of my hand a dozen of things that are lacking. So IMO they are serious.
As for everything in one file. I guess maybe I'll have to stop all the multi-file projects I'm currently working on and re-do all the multi-file project I've done in the past. ;)
I like the smile, but it would really be a good thing to have everything separate instead of loading ONE massive file. That also counts for drawings.
It would, indeed, be nice to have a single comprehensive assembly workbench. Again, organic growth... :roll:
No, I mean everything separate. A drawing is a drawing, a assy is a assy, a part, is a part. This is serious. Everything becomes a lot easier when you only have things separate. I know why it is the way it is, but when you think about it then you soon realize that when you separate everything you also got rid of all the complexities that are involved.
As for the "lot of time learning" comment. I have to disagree. I have worked with people with no experience in CAD at all and people who are quite knowledgeable in Fusion (and other software). They have learned and progressed to doing rather complicated work in FreeCAD in a matter of days (those with no experience) and hours (for those with experience). Why? TBH, I don't know for sure, but, I have my suspicions.
Yes, I agree, but complexities should always be avoided.
As for the Blender and LibreOffice. Both of those have a significantly different history. They may be the poster children for FOSS success stories, but, their history (having started with, or early on had, corporate involvement, etc. and evolution to full on management teams with brick-and-mortar offices) would be hard to duplicate. Having corporate sponsors isn't always a panacea. No doubt FreeCAD would benefit from a more managed environment and some number of full time staff. Whether the the Blender/LibreOffice model is right for FreeCAD...who knows.
Blender maybe yes, but LibreOffice has gone a long way and improved a lot (but is still lacking Mathcad for instance, yes you have an equation editor but not the solver with units).
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by drmacro »

grd wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:33 pm
drmacro wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:58 pm And, I and many others, disagree with much of what you say. FC is not that bad to learn...if one wants to learn.
I agree, but learning this is hard.
CAD is hard.
I can note out of my hand a dozen of things that are lacking. So IMO they are serious.
Again, if the list is serious, why is it not impacting all the serious work that does get done?

Most likely it is because people have learned how to customize, use macros, etc.

There is lacking and can be done. Then there is lacking and can't be accomplished.

Being able to be done in other ways is different from not possible.

Much of what I see people complaining about is just being uncomfortable that it takes 2 clicks in FC and only one elsewhere.

I like the smile, but it would really be a good thing to have everything separate instead of loading ONE massive file. That also counts for drawings.
...
No, I mean everything separate. A drawing is a drawing, a assy is a assy, a part, is a part. This is serious. Everything becomes a lot easier when you only have things separate. I know why it is the way it is, but when you think about it then you soon realize that when you separate everything you also got rid of all the complexities that are involved.
And, by having everything in a multitude of files adds different complexities.

But, you can put a single model in every file and use them with links. Plenty of folks do.

IMO, having a multitude of files, as you describe, is not desirable.
Blender maybe yes, but LibreOffice has gone a long way and improved a lot (but is still lacking Mathcad for instance).
Actually the latest release of LibreOffice is a PITA to use. They have made the menus and toolbars totally confusing and unintuitive. It is actually harder to use than it ever has been.
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by grd »

drmacro wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:49 pm And, by having everything in a multitude of files adds different complexities.
I am sorry but I disagree. I never ever had any problem with finding files, nor with assy's, nor with drawings. Never. But when you allow people to include everything into one file then you end up with a mess and anything becomes harder. Let me repeat. I know why it is, but when you separate everything then you also got rid of all the complexities that are involved. An item or part should only have one body. And an instance is an instance. When you operate that way it becomes simple. Selecting things also becomes easier.
Last edited by grd on Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by GeneFC »

grd wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:03 pm That is the problem with FC.
You are asking for a complete redo.

I suggest forking the github repository and getting started. :lol:

Short of that, you may want to go back and re-read the referenced pages on suggestions for new users. :mrgreen:

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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by grd »

GeneFC wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:08 pm You are asking for a complete redo.

I suggest forking the github repository and getting started. :lol:
Come on, I am not talking about that. I don't want to fork the repository. I am talking about the benefits of separating the issues.

(sorry for hijacking this)
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