Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

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user1234
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by user1234 »

GeneFC wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:31 pm Sure, some programs are easier than others for a beginner. But doubt there is any serious CAD program that is instantly "intuitive".
+1, as i wrote in an other similar topic: a serious CAD is not an ad hoc use program, never was, never will be.

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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by adrianinsaval »

If you feel like freecad default configs are not good I encourage you to make a PR to make it good, in the end defaults are just defaults and can be changed so any complaint like "this setting doesn't suit my workflow" from oldtimers is invalid, they can just change to what they want.
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by sliptonic »

Zolko wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:05 pm
...So the question becomes: should we consider their request and ship FreeCAD with a default configuration that follows general industrial practices and that costs NOTHING in development time,

...or should we continue to ignore these recurring claims and ride our high horse ?
I once heard an old lady say, "If you get invited to a picnic where people are saying 'we can have chicken and we can have corn' don't go. You'll go hungry. But if someone is saying, 'I'll bring the chicken' and someone else says, 'I'll bring the corn' THAT'S the picnic to attend."

I'm kinda getting burned out on this forum. It seems like every discussion devolves into discussion about what 'we' should do with nobody taking the lead and actually doing it. Discussions like this one don't stay focused and never seem to change anything. As a consequence there are whole parts of the forum that I don't bother reading any more. I'd rather have immediate realtime conversation in chat and do the long-term planning and coordination in issues. That's just my preference but it seems to be more productive.
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by Zolko »

sliptonic wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:09 pm ... about what 'we' should do with nobody taking the lead and actually doing it.

Code: Select all

FreeCAD 0.21, Libs: 0.21R30044 (Git)
© Juergen Riegel, Werner Mayer, Yorik van Havre and others 2001-2022
...
as long as that's there, why would anyone ELSE want to "actually do it" ? It's THEIR copyright, THEIR code, THEY get to fix it. Why would I spend hours to improve something so that others can parade with it ? What's so hard to understand : either it's a community project or it's some people's personal software. You can't have it both ways. If Jürgen, Werner and Yorick don't care that their names are associated with a software that thousands or people are calling "unusable", why should I care ? I wouldn't stand it, but it's not my name there.
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by Jee-Bee »

GeneFC wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:31 pm Sure, some programs are easier than others for a beginner. But doubt there is any serious CAD program that is instantly "intuitive".
Depends... But all the time saying CAD is difficult yada yada yada don't make it better. FC is more difficult also compared with other CAD software. It is what it is but that don't mean we should leave it like that? Why not trying to make FC as intuitive as possible.
If the goal is FC should be as user friendly as SW(If another one is more user friendly replace it, i just don't know it ;) ) AND as flexible, stable as Creo than FC is the best CAD software on earth!!
That require work, and acceptance of change from all of us...

my motivation: I think there is no reason CAD is difficult (assuming we don't speak about double curved surfaces and some corner cases with weird fillets and draft stuff). Engineering can be difficult and CAD software shouldn't be a leading part of it
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by grd »

Jee-Bee wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:44 pm
GeneFC wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:31 pm Sure, some programs are easier than others for a beginner. But doubt there is any serious CAD program that is instantly "intuitive".
Depends... But all the time saying CAD is difficult yada yada yada don't make it better. FC is more difficult also compared with other CAD software. It is what it is but that don't mean we should leave it like that? Why not trying to make FC as intuitive as possible.
If the goal is FC should be as user friendly as SW(If another one is more user friendly replace it, i just don't know it ;) ) AND as flexible, stable as Creo than FC is the best CAD software on earth!!
That require work, and acceptance of change from all of us...
I agree entirely with what you just said there!

Do you know how MS fixes their problems? Each year they make a list of the 10 most important issues / bugs and they are gonna fix those issues. They have all the money so they are gonna fix them. So if we could make such a "top 10 list", put it on github, and fix these issues then we could also fix the serious issues. And be proud to fix them.

But I welcome any other idea that could help fix the issues. And user friendly is also very important!
my motivation: I think there is no reason CAD is difficult (assuming we don't speak about double curved surfaces and some corner cases with weird fillets and draft stuff). Engineering can be difficult and CAD software shouldn't be a leading part of it
Again, I agree. Personally I really like the original idea of MacOS. I don't like what they are doing today at Apple but their original concept was good and anyone loved that. I also want FC to be the best CAD software in the world! Who wouldn't? But I think that we are gonna need a "Top 10 of 2022", and after that a "Top 10 of 2023" and after that... You know what I mean. Maybe even bundle that list to the release schedule.
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by chrisb »

grd wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:28 am So if we could make such a "top 10 list", put it on github, ...
So far it is easy doing; here is my top ten:
T
o
p
o
n
a
m
i
n
g
and fix these issues then we could also fix the serious issues. And be proud to fix them.
Here things become less easy: Who is these "we", who should do the fixing? MS can assign work to some developer and he will do for the money he gets. We can also assign work to developers. And they will do it or they will not. Or they will do something else. Should we forbid workiing on other things than the top ten? Sure not, as it could stop all developments for years or forever.
FreeCAD is not short of ideas what could or should be done, it needs the people who actually do it.

I come along very well with most toponaming issues. So the list above is rather to demonstrate that it helps nothing. We know it since years.
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by mfro »

+1.

And the whole discussion is pretty worthless if it's just about proposals what others could do.
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by obelisk79 »

+1 for mitigating the Topological Naming Problem
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Re: Fusion360 has hiked its prices once again. Brace yourselves, CADfugees are coming

Post by Jee-Bee »

chrisb wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:22 am MS can assign work to some developer and he will do for the money he gets. We can also assign work to developers. And they will do it or they will not. Or they will do something else. Should we forbid workiing on other things than the top ten? Sure not, ...
This is bassically the short version what i meant with:
Jee-Bee wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:43 pm A point i have personally difficulties with is related on development but directly. It is a roadmap kind of thing.
What i strugle with is that i have quite often the feeling that there is no overview on the project in what functions do we want to add. when do we want these functions implemented. what features can be improved
...
The reason i have personal difficulties with is that it directly involve (a few) devs that are already super busy with a lot of other work...
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