Benchmarking and Evaluating FreeCAD against other CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM software

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drmacro
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Re: Benchmarking and Evaluating FreeCAD against other CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM software

Post by drmacro »

keithsloan52 wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:57 pm ... There is a management team doing outreach and defining roadmaps. With annual funding of over a million Euro. They have a headquarter office building.
...
Not to forget that Blender has a great leader in Ton Roosendaal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton_Roosendaal] who has elevated Blender into a different league.
He is the originator of the foundation and part of the management team (and part of the outreach, etc.) I refer to. ;)
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Jzuken
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Re: Benchmarking and Evaluating FreeCAD against other CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM software

Post by Jzuken »

drmacro wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:09 pm And, as I've noted, you are far from the first first to note these things.
I did not just note them, as I said, I am trying to systemize those things. I don't mind giving some of my time, insight and money to the cause, but there is only so much I can expend in terms of money. So my other contributions could be knowledge or skills. I don't mind trying to write some workbenches or functions when I get some time on my hand.
No I do not speak for the developers. But, I do note the things I've observed while watching FreeCAD for almost half of it's existence.

I know of no "mission statement". The concept of industry adoption and growth of the user base are a projections by you (and many others) yet there is no supporting evidence that it is being sought.

Quoting one of the founding members: "FreeCAD has a very small team of developers. We have not as much time as we would like to dedicate to FreeCAD, and things are not planned ahead, they are done when some developer sees it fit and when he finds time to do it. So we don't maintain a list of tasks to be done. It is up to you to find something you would like to do, for example a defect you would like to correct, or a small feature you think is missing."
Well to grow the FreeCAD into something bigger it needs funding, but to get at least somewhat better funding than it's getting now there are things that need to be completed. One of those is ironing out the kinks, another is either establishing or joining nonprofit foundation so that donations could be officialized, and so that we can reach out to industry people.
Unfortunately, as this world works, collecting money from individuals and hobbyists to fund software development is more of a futile effort. To really get going FC would need to get industry support, with sums far exceeding the current budget.
But...a noble goal for who? There is no board of directors (as in the Blender foundation), no steering committee to make roadmaps, no executive officer (as in the Blender foundation) to do outreach and sign up corporate sponsors, etc.

AFAIK there is no concerted effort to create those things.
And blender didn't start out with all of those things either, and it wasn't recognized as the industry standard until very recent. But that didn't stop people from trying to outreach.
(unless it happens to, unlike so many similar discussions of the past, spur actions)
So I hope. I don't mind dedicating some of my time to programming and improving FC, and some of the time to management and outreach. One of the ways I'm trying to contribute is developing this list of benchmarks, that can later grow to be presentation showcases to show to people working in industry.
drmacro
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Re: Benchmarking and Evaluating FreeCAD against other CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM software

Post by drmacro »

Jzuken wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:25 pm ...
I did not just note them, as I said, I am trying to systemize those things. I don't mind giving some of my time, insight and money to the cause, but there is only so much I can expend in terms of money. So my other contributions could be knowledge or skills. I don't mind trying to write some workbenches or functions when I get some time on my hand.
No one is going to say you shouldn't.
Well to grow the FreeCAD into something bigger it needs funding, but to get at least somewhat better funding than it's getting now there are things that need to be completed. One of those is ironing out the kinks, another is either establishing or joining nonprofit foundation so that donations could be officialized, and so that we can reach out to industry people.
Unfortunately, as this world works, collecting money from individuals and hobbyists to fund software development is more of a futile effort. To really get going FC would need to get industry support, with sums far exceeding the current budget.
Needs, should, could, ironing, establishing, joining, collecting, industry support. All take hands to accomplish. And again, you are saying what has been said before.
And blender didn't start out with all of those things either, and it wasn't recognized as the industry standard until very recent. But that didn't stop people from trying to outreach.
But, it did have far more than FreeCAD has at this point in time. Blender was already established as tool used by it's target industry. And, Ton worked with those industrial adopters (who had a vested interest in it already) to establish the foundation.
... I don't mind dedicating some of my time to programming and improving FC, and some of the time to management and outreach. One of the ways I'm trying to contribute is developing this list of benchmarks, that can later grow to be presentation showcases to show to people working in industry.
No one says you shouldn't. And this brings us back to my very first question. When will you present this showcase?
Plenty of us will answer your questions along your journey in learning to use, program, and improve FreeCAD.
We eagerly await the results.
And FreeCAD too has a lot of great people working on it.
Great folks indeed, by head count, though, not comparatively. Blender has about 30 full time employees. FreeCAD has a handful of volunteers. And, in general, a handful of engineers, not business majors, marketing majors, or lawyers.
I also mentioned Blender has a office, a headquarters. The major FreeCAD developers, indeed the founders, are scattered all over the world. So the simple act of having a payroll would be a major undertaking, what with taxes, international funds transfer, and employment laws.

Sure, that can be worked out, just as a lot of other stuff can be...but, we're back to the point I've been making all along: you need bodies to do it all.

The mistake is assuming there is some desire to be a threat to the commercial CAD vendors and a desire to build the user count. I've seen no indication of such a desires, except in people like yourself.
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Re: Benchmarking and Evaluating FreeCAD against other CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM software

Post by keithsloan52 »

It is worth reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton_Roosendaal for how blender has developed.

Blended has succeeded as they managed to get buy in from the film industry
KiCad has succeeded as firms that create Printed circuit boards have sponsored

Not sure I can FreeCAD getting sponsors to the same extent. Solidworks seats are expensive but also people need support.
KiCad addresses the support issue with a Support Services company. Perhaps some entrepreneur could start a reasonably priced
support service for FreeCAD and if they gain traction, sponsor some FreeCAD development.
But starting a Support Service prior to TPN being fixed addressed is probably not wise.
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Re: Benchmarking and Evaluating FreeCAD against other CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM software

Post by grd »

@jzuken, and all,

Do you know https://github.com/helloSystem/hello? Or https://vlang.io/ I don't think you know because they are both only "small potatoes", and they are both also "new". FreeCAD is NOT new.

Why do I mention these two projects? Because both of them are trying to solve their own problems. helloSystem is trying to solve the GUI for FreeBSD, by creating a Mac clone surface on top of it (and it is very clever design) and he also noted that Apple is not a good citizen. The second that is a try to create a new programming language that is both safe and easy to use.

Personally I admire the effort that those guys are creating. I admire the view that those guys are showing to us all. It is all team work but it also relies on the views and the work of one guy. And most of those guys have their own personality. They are sailing against the wind. That is who they are. Do you believe that Linus Torvalds is always easy? I don't think so, but he did create a working kernel for the Linux OS. And to be honest, I think that both projects can have a great future, with the proper funding.

I want to show you this video, that can change your mind https://youtu.be/rdH8Kuku9tA
It is about great designs, about how great designers think.

Because what you are doing, this list, I think that it is very important.
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chrisb
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Re: Benchmarking and Evaluating FreeCAD against other CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM software

Post by chrisb »

grd wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:01 am Do you know https://github.com/helloSystem/hello? Or https://vlang.io/ I don't think you know because they are both only "small potatoes", and they are both also "new".
I have to admit that I have no clue what you are talking about. What do you want to tell us? What is your final goal?
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Kunda1
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Re: Benchmarking and Evaluating FreeCAD against other CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM software

Post by Kunda1 »

I think we should keep the dicussion more about benchmarking and less about industry adoption. If we get FreeCAD even more optimized from the outcome of this discussion, that would be ideal. Also there is a need for benchmarking CAD. I recall reading how the Phoronix folk were interested in a Benchmarking algorithm they could run on their system to test FLOSS CAD against each other and industry CAD. So lets talk more in that direction...? Agreed?
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Re: Benchmarking and Evaluating FreeCAD against other CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM software

Post by grd »

chrisb wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:23 pm
grd wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:01 am Do you know https://github.com/helloSystem/hello? Or https://vlang.io/ I don't think you know because they are both only "small potatoes", and they are both also "new".
I have to admit that I have no clue what you are talking about. What do you want to tell us? What is your final goal?
What I liked is what @Jzuken did. Why don't you like more funding to help improve the project? I think that this is what it is all about, isn't it? There are so many rough spots in FreeCAD, spots that should be polished. Why I pointed out these projects is also easy. To think about what this project could become with the proper funding. Or don't you like funds? I mean, look at LibreOffice, Blender, Canonical, RedHat and the Linux kernel? They are all properly funded and independent open source software developers.

I think that having such a list could point out the benefits of using FreeCAD.

But to answer your question: Does FreeCAD has a PLM?
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Re: Benchmarking and Evaluating FreeCAD against other CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM software

Post by chrisb »

grd wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:40 am Does FreeCAD has a PLM?
No, just people we trust.
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Re: Benchmarking and Evaluating FreeCAD against other CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM software

Post by Roy_043 »

PLM = Product Lifecycle Management
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