We need an official logo

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sliptonic
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We need an official logo

Post by sliptonic »

DO NOT REPLY BY ATTACHING A LOGO.

Read this message and the entire thread before wasting your time. Any replies that contain a logo suggestion will be deleted.

The FreeCAD Project Association (FPA) needs an official logo. The FPA is related to FreeCAD but is an independent organization. As such, it needs a suitable print-worthy logo and identity.

Logos are subjective and the subject of logos has often become controversial. I want to avoid those mistakes. So I'm starting this topic to answer one question:

What process should we use for selecting a logo?

Should we have a contest?
  • Who's eligible to enter?
  • Who judges?
  • What should be the criteria?
Should we contract with a designer to do the work?
  • What should we ask for?
  • How much should we pay?
  • How do we select a competent designer?
  • How will it be received if we pay a designer while developers contribute code unpaid?
Is there another process to consider?
  • What is it?
  • What are the pros and cons?
The readers of the UI/UX forum section should be the experts in this area. This is an opportunity to benefit the entire FreeCAD project with your expertise. Let's keep it civil and professional.
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adrianinsaval
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Re: We need an official logo

Post by adrianinsaval »

Certainly I would prefer if the FPA's money was spent on coders above all else but I think we're all adults an understand that there are other costs involved in moving a project forward, marketing is one of those necessary evils so personally I wouldn't mind if a designer is hired as long as we're not talking about astronomical sums of money.
If you want to go with asking the community, It think there's many people with strong feelings about subjects like this so IMO before starting to ask for submission specific requirements for the logo and rules for the process should be clearly established and followed.
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Roy_043
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Re: We need an official logo

Post by Roy_043 »

Can you explain why a logo is necessary for the FPA? There are plenty of legal entities that do not have a logo.
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onekk
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Re: We need an official logo

Post by onekk »

sliptonic wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 5:31 pm Should we have a contest?
  • Who's eligible to enter?
  • Who judges?
  • What should be the criteria?
Eligible people in what sense, FC users, professional designers, or whatever else (usually who judges is not participating to the contest)
Who Judges, FCA members are clever enough to select something and maybe make a pool between users or developers with 4 or 5 candidates.
Criteria depends on who judge the logo, probably some guidelines would be desirable, to narrow the "creativity".

Like:
  • it must contains FC logo,
  • it must not have more than xxx colors
  • it must have some "branding colors" like the blue, and red of FC logo as example. (fake proposal, only to gave some hints)
  • it must be 400x400 pixel and maybe even readable when reduced to 48x48 pixels (fake dimensions to gave an idea)
sliptonic wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 5:31 pm Should we contract with a designer to do the work?
  • What should we ask for?
  • How much should we pay?
  • How do we select a competent designer?
  • How will it be received if we pay a designer while developers contribute code unpaid?
Is there another process to consider?
  • What is it?
  • What are the pros and cons?
I think that there are enough users around to not pay for a professional contractors, eventually a prize that is a fraction (30% 50%) of a professional logo (probably is easy to have some free quotes)


But as usual it's my personal point of view, I'm not a professional graphic designer.

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Carlo D.
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sliptonic
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Re: We need an official logo

Post by sliptonic »

Roy_043 wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 5:42 pm Can you explain why a logo is necessary for the FPA? There are plenty of legal entities that do not have a logo.
In the strictest sense, it isn't mandatory. I think we would like to encourage people to think of the FreeCAD project as a pure open-source and loosely defined community while the FPA is more structured and organized for the mission of protecting and advancing the project.

To that end, a logo is helpful to distinguish between those two entities. At least that's my thinking.
openBrain
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Re: We need an official logo

Post by openBrain »

sliptonic wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 5:31 pm What process should we use for selecting a logo?
Majority judgment is at the bleeding edge of voting theory. :)
Should we have a contest?
Would probably be a good thing
[*]Who's eligible to enter?
Anyone respecting the rules of the contest. :)
[*]Who judges?
Everyone with more than 100 (X) posts on the forum
[*]What should be the criteria?[/list]
Probably the biggest effort is defining the rules.
Should we contract with a designer to do the work?
I don't think so.
Is there another process to consider?
Probably you have to consider the evolution of FC logo. If a brand-new one is chosen for 1.0 release, maybe better to decide on the FPA one after.
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pathfinder
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Re: We need an official logo

Post by pathfinder »

I studied graphic design, but I'm not practicing it regularly at the moment.

My two cents on contests:

Designing a logo is deceptively complex because it seems like all you do is design an icon and be done, but you need more than that. If I get a logo for a graphic design job, I usually also get a manual with it, which contains:

- How much space do I have to leave around the logo?
- How do I deal with it on non-white backgrounds?
- When printed, does it use Pantone colors? If yes, which ones?
- Are there colors associated that can/should be used for decorative elements?
- Is there a monochrome version? Are there different versions for light vs. dark backgrounds?
- If there is text associated with it, what's the font used?
- Is there a different version for print media (because depending on paper/print quality, some things may look different when printed) or for different sizes?

…and so on. You can go all the way into developing a corporate design, which I guess is out of scope here, but just throwing a logo out there and hoping it will be good for all occasions is pretty much a shot in the dark.

With that in mind, if you want to make it a "real" contest, I see two options:
1.: Someone who's a professional takes a look at the commissions and checks for viability before the contest is opened for vote (I personally don't feel professional enough for that).
2.: You have a contest and get a professional afterwards to rework the logo and make it ready.

That being said, I generally don't like contests, because it means that the majority of participants end up being disappointed. I'd rather work for free and know that I'm not getting anything out of it than working towards a hypothetical prize, just to lose and see my efforts go in the trash. You also end up with a bunch of people being salty that that other logo they really like didn't win.

From a programmers perspective; while I know contests exists here as well, wouldn't you feel kinda disenfranchised if anytime you tried to make a commit, you had ten people competing and one "winning"?

With all that said, I'd suggest this:

Make it a "contest" in the sense that people can apply and get voted for publicly, just not with a done logo, but with a portfolio.

This way, they don't have to spend their energy into working for the trash can, and the public gets to have a say in it. I have no strong opinion on whether the "winner" should be paid or not and how much, because I don't know what the general financial situation of FC is. Maybe make a poll to see how many people would be willing to work for free? I'd say if it's more than five, the pool would be big enough, but that's really just my subjective feeling on the matter.


Edit:
This is anecdotal, but within the graphic design space, reputation is king and there's a lot of festivals and contests out there which are used as a way to measure how good advertisement agencies are. If you ever saw a "worlds funniest ads" show or a buzzfeed list like that, chances are the ads were specifically developed to get submitted for festivals and contests, to raise the agencies profile. It's a bit of an effed up system, but you get the gist.

Why this is of interest here: first of all, to be applicable to most of these contests, the ads need to be real. You can't just develop an ad for a fantasy product. At the same time, you don't want to have a client sitting in you back, bitching about every dot and line, you want to compromise as little as possible. Thus, often times, agencies will make deals with NGOs or smaller companies to develop ads for free for them, but with the caveat that they can do pretty much whatever they want and apply to contests and festivals. This is a bit of a double-edged sword, because it means that the NGO/company isn't the real client, but the contest/festival jury is. But it also means that the agency is bringing their A-game, so there isn't a big risk to end up with garbage.
I don't really know how to approach this, but I think FC might be of interest for agencies in this regard. Maybe just writing agencies point-blank and ask them whether they might be interested in this kind of deal couldn't hurt?
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obelisk79
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Re: We need an official logo

Post by obelisk79 »

I don't think that FPA as an entity really needs an individual identity (logo). I do think however that the current FreeCAD logo needs to be updated/refined (NOT completely reimagined). I think the current logo has general elements that can maintain the identity/pedigree without completely rising it to the wayside.

*If* the FPA decides to move forward with it's own logo, I think general guidelines should be provided for the submissions during a limited timeframe in a contest format. I believe there is enough general talent among ui/ux people here that there shouldn't be a general need for hiring a professional designer. I would expect such services of a bonafide professional would be rather cost-prohibitive anyway. Judging/voting of submissions should be done by the listed members of the FPA. You could either completely internalize the vote, or choose a top 3 candidates and then allow the community to vote on those for a final decision.
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adrianinsaval
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Re: We need an official logo

Post by adrianinsaval »

Please let's leave the FC logo out of this or the discussion will go out of hand quickly, focurs on the task at hand. I like pathfinder's idea if it's actually doable.
chrisb
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Re: We need an official logo

Post by chrisb »

obelisk79 wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:27 am I don't think that FPA as an entity really needs an individual identity (logo).
It doesn't need it, but it would be nice to have it. And isn't it nice to do every now and then something - nice?
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