Integration of BlenderBIM Feaures : FreeCAD Arch/BIM - Native IFC

A forum dedicated to the Draft, Arch and BIM workbenches development.
Post Reply
paullee
Veteran
Posts: 4618
Joined: Wed May 04, 2016 3:58 pm

Integration of BlenderBIM Feaures : FreeCAD Arch/BIM - Native IFC

Post by paullee »

EDIT - Adding Native IFC to Topic
yorik wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:41 am In the case of BlenderBIM, the way it work in Blender is: A Blender model is tied to an IFC file. If you add a new BIM object, that object is actually created as an IFC object first, then "rendered" into a corresponding Blender object. So your Blender model is always a mirror of the IFC content. When you save the file, both files are actually saved. You actually work natively on the IFC file.

Since BlenderBIM maintains a kind of "parallel model", in memory, the same kind of thing could happen in FreeCAD and who knows, BlenderBIM could one day work in FreeCAD too! Each FreeCAD BIM object could obtain its geometry from a corresponding BlenderBIM object.

There is a long way to there obviously, but that would IMHO be a fantastic path: FreeCAD could be used as a strict, 100% faithful IFC editor, the same way as Moult is going with BlenderBIM, and keep the loose, free BIM modeling paradigm it has now too. Best of 2 worlds :)

Topologic could be used the same way. For example, tolopogic is typically used to create spaces, that get automatically connected and arranged by sets of rules. We could have a set of Arch spaces, all derived/driven by corresponding Topologic spaces.

For these two things, FreeCAD needs to keep, together with the FreeCAD document, a corresponding other document structure (Topologic or BlenderBIM). I'm not sure how that could be done efficiently. Needs more brainstorming I guess...
In this video, a discussion between Moult and Dimitar, at the very last part, it is mentioned (again) the BlenderBIM features are ready to be adopted in FreeCAD.

Any idea if this is going to happen ? :)

phpBB [video]
User avatar
onekk
Veteran
Posts: 4125
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:48 am
Contact:

Re: Integration of BlenderBIM Feaures : FreeCAD Arch/BIM

Post by onekk »

paullee wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:06 pm ...
Any idea if this is going to happen ? :)
From what I know Blender is using "mesh modelling" and FreeCAD is not using it, probably there are some differences if you use some "curved shapes" that you will not notice when using straight shapes.

Interoperability will be a good things, expecially between two opensource program wioth "such a reputation", but sadly "modelling paradigm" are very different between FC and Blender.

Regards

Carlo D.
In deep articles on FreeCAD https://github.com/onekk/freecad-doc.
My Blog: https://onekk-maker.blogspot.com/

See on GitHub how to fund development

Interested in learning scripting? Follow https://github.com/onekk/freecad-doc - Learning
User avatar
yorik
Founder
Posts: 13157
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:16 pm
Location: Brussels
Contact:

Re: Integration of BlenderBIM Feaures : FreeCAD Arch/BIM

Post by yorik »

The mesh/brep difference is not so important... IfcOpenShell works primarily and internally with breps too. It's built on opencascade too. So whatever ifcopenshell does, is fully compatible with FreeCAD.

Most of the work Dion has developed with BlenderBIM is IFC-related, and that is 100% reusable in FreeCAD. I would say, as far as I looked into the code, it is constructed with pretty different paradigms than what the current BIM stuff of FreeCAD uses, that's the main problem. But I haven't looked far enough in the new ifcopenshell API stuff itself. That should be much easier immediately usable.

My opinion is that either A) we build a kind of new BlenderBIM workbench from scratch (which might be fully compatible with Arch, why not), which is probably the easiest in terms of programming complexity, or B) we adapt the current Arch system to support a kind of "external engine" which would be BlenderBIM (or Topologic, or whatever) to generate the geometry. But that might be more work and create a lot of other intersections to resolve.

In the meantime, however, I'm advancing on these two ideas: https://github.com/yorikvanhavre/BIM_Wo ... /issues/94 and https://github.com/yorikvanhavre/BIM_Wo ... /issues/81 which are much easier to do and don't prevent the above from happening afterwards...
User avatar
thomas-neemann
Veteran
Posts: 7620
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:03 pm
Location: Osnabrück DE

Re: Integration of BlenderBIM Feaures : FreeCAD Arch/BIM

Post by thomas-neemann »

yorik wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:42 am ....
i think a lot of work can be saved if you wait and see how bim develops in the world and then adapt to the established system
ich biete freecad online-support an, als midi/mini-job
VHS Freecad Grundkurs
https://www.vhs-lingen.de/programm/kurs ... 011#inhalt
Gruß Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Thomas Neemann
User avatar
yorik
Founder
Posts: 13157
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:16 pm
Location: Brussels
Contact:

Re: Integration of BlenderBIM Feaures : FreeCAD Arch/BIM

Post by yorik »

thomas-neemann wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:30 am i think a lot of work can be saved if you wait and see how bim develops in the world and then adapt to the established system
Yes and no... because the conclusion of that is that we would basically need to do a revit clone.

I agree we need to look closely at what users do, but the whole BIM world is pretty much a slave of autodesk and friends today (only my humble opinion of course). If you ask BIM users, most will tell you "BIM is what XXX (their BIM software) does", and repeat what the last BIM guru (paid by one of the companies mentioned earlier) said. We have here an opportunity to do things differently. Use IFC correctly. Let users define their own building structure. Let users create their own parametric relationships. We are not developing a commercial product, we have no interest in competing. We want to be open, and let users decide for themselves how they want to work. FOSS software does that, BlenderBIM does, FreeCAD does, is to allow things that are not done in the usual commercial BIM apps.

An example: regarding IFC integration: autodesk has had at least 20 years to work on it. Is it ready? Is it good? I think they will NEVER have the IFC integration they could have. They simply have no interest in it. As a consequence, users don't know it, don't use it, repeat the meme "IFC is not good enough".

Ok enough adsk rant already :)
User avatar
thomas-neemann
Veteran
Posts: 7620
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:03 pm
Location: Osnabrück DE

Re: Integration of BlenderBIM Feaures : FreeCAD Arch/BIM

Post by thomas-neemann »

yorik wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:29 pm ...
full agreement, but it's a lot of work and a long way
ich biete freecad online-support an, als midi/mini-job
VHS Freecad Grundkurs
https://www.vhs-lingen.de/programm/kurs ... 011#inhalt
Gruß Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Thomas Neemann
paullee
Veteran
Posts: 4618
Joined: Wed May 04, 2016 3:58 pm

Re: Integration of BlenderBIM Feaures : FreeCAD Arch/BIM

Post by paullee »

yorik wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:42 am My opinion is that either A) we build a kind of new BlenderBIM workbench from scratch (which might be fully compatible with Arch, why not), which is probably the easiest in terms of programming complexity, or B) we adapt the current Arch system to support a kind of "external engine" which would be BlenderBIM (or Topologic, or whatever) to generate the geometry. But that might be more work and create a lot of other intersections to resolve.
What is the difference with what the current importIFC does?

I thought the current importIFC use IFCOpenShell which read the IFC file, and generate a geometry, and it become the Shape of Arch Object ?

Thanks.
paullee
Veteran
Posts: 4618
Joined: Wed May 04, 2016 3:58 pm

Re: Integration of BlenderBIM Feaures : FreeCAD Arch/BIM

Post by paullee »

Any maybe, how the community can help / contribute ?
User avatar
yorik
Founder
Posts: 13157
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:16 pm
Location: Brussels
Contact:

Re: Integration of BlenderBIM Feaures : FreeCAD Arch/BIM

Post by yorik »

paullee wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:27 pm What is the difference with what the current importIFC does?
Basically: when we import an IFC file, we create FreeCAD objects from the characteristics (geometry, properties...) of the IFC objects found in the file. When we export, we create IFC objects from the characteristics of the FreeCAD objects. From the first IFC file to the last, 2 full translations happened. So there are a LOT of difference between the two files, even if the geometry inside stayed the same.

BlenderBIM offers a system that takes an IFC file, and allows you to access and modify the objects inside. So while you work, you still keep your original IFC file and modify only what is needed inside. If you change only the length of one wall, that will be the only difference in your final IFC file.

This would be really interesting to have. It would finally allow to rely on IFC file much more, it would make them much more easier versionable, etc.

The problem is that it would basically mean recode a new workbench from scratch, as Arch/BIM would be very hard to adapt to the BlenderBIM structure...
paullee
Veteran
Posts: 4618
Joined: Wed May 04, 2016 3:58 pm

Re: Integration of BlenderBIM Feaures : FreeCAD Arch/BIM

Post by paullee »

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

Possible to start with something simple as a wall, or something not exist in FreeCAD Arch/BIM (any?) as a test / showcase; then the community can extend to other objects?
Post Reply