Draft WB: Please confirm intended behaviours

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catman
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Draft WB: Please confirm intended behaviours

Post by catman »

Can some better Draft user than me please check if I came across some bugs or I am not seeing the obvious. Its the result of a longer trial to really understand how to use Draft WB correctly :) . For those issues I am out of ideas.

My System Spec: Linux, 22.04, nVidiaGraphics, V0.21, Git 29393 AppImage.

* The visual line widths
They are not according the setting. When I use lines with say 1mm size I would expect on the screen the line shows 1mm diameter. As a test make a line 10mm thick and compare to a part box 10x10x10mm. The difference is a magnitude.

* Export to SVG (DXF seems to have similar issues).
I exported lines. circles and "S"-Text to "Flattened SVG" ad checked with Inkscape. All lines are the same size no matter what their line width has been in Draft, including text lines. The line thickness is always set to 0.35px. For Text i changed each letter manually to 0.05 got get about the same view than in FreeCAD. Its the same for the export settings are at "RAW/CAM" or "Print". Also Construction lines were exported twice, one time with the layer and one separately. To remove them in inkscape I had to delete them twice.

* My testprint was about 15x10cm. When I exported that to PDF I got such a low resultion that would could see big pixel stepping on a surface. I would expect there is a parameter for pdf resolution since anything higher for a whole building plan would probably produce GB large files :lol:

* When the line width is set to something >10mm the visual 2D line does not change

* Line vs. Fill
How can I create a shape without outline. As there is no "no Line" I tried to set the line width to 0 setting, but the minium was 1mm. However as a workaround it worked in a layer: there I could set 0mm and see shaped with only fill. But all the single items shows a line width on 1mm which is not correct. I can make single shapes in a layer a thicker line and that works visually, but since the offset should be 0 and not 1mm the actual width is unclear.
It gets interesting when this is exported. What value is used?

About the text tool "S".Say the result should be letters exact 3mm high.
A special case are Strings. Without layers 0mm line width is not possible. But the issue here is rather how the line width impacts the letter size, i.e. when "line=1mm" and text size=3mm is the rendered text then 3mm, 3.5mm or 4mm high? Expected would be the height remains the same (3mm). Observation is that the heigh changes with line width. I think we should specify that on the wiki page (I am happy to do that if nobody minds)

* Move does not snap shapes to the working plane
I set a custom plane at a part face, i.e. parallel to TOP view. Somehow I keep putting shapes to the Z=0 plane and outside the woring plane I expected I can get them back by moveing them a bit with snap "WorkingPlane ON". Isn't the intention of Snap Workplane to work on the Z-coordinate in that case. I observe that Z for those shapes remains 0. The only way to get it back to the workplae it to manually enter Z=23.4. That should be quite impossible when the WP is not origin aligend. Is that indende behaviour and if so is there another way to do this. Projection only works the other way around.

*Transform Tool
When I select a string I would expect that the transform tool is visible to move it around with the mouse. I only saw the dialog where I could enter numbers. I that by design?
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thomas-neemann
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Re: Draft WB: Please confirm intended behaviours

Post by thomas-neemann »

catman wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:29 pm ...
* Move does not snap shapes to the working plane
in my experience this is
Bildschirmfoto_2022-07-30_21-51-44.png
Bildschirmfoto_2022-07-30_21-51-44.png (2 KiB) Viewed 1471 times
the only snap option that ignores this option
Bildschirmfoto_2022-07-30_21-51-56.png
Bildschirmfoto_2022-07-30_21-51-56.png (1.91 KiB) Viewed 1471 times
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catman
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Re: Draft WB: Please confirm intended behaviours

Post by catman »

thomas-neemann wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:56 pm
catman wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:29 pm * Move does not snap shapes to the working plane
Bildschirmfoto_2022-07-30_21-51-44.png

the only snap option that ignores this option
Excellent. When I only set Snap to LOCK & SNAP_WORKPLANE & NEAR the parts are brought to the current plane.

Do you know if that is target behaviour only for this snap, i.e. the others should not do that or should I file a bug report about the others?
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Roy_043
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Re: Draft WB: Please confirm intended behaviours

Post by Roy_043 »

catman wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:01 pm Excellent. When I only set Snap to LOCK & SNAP_WORKPLANE & NEAR the parts are brought to the current plane.
As I understand Thomas's comment he is saying this combination does NOT work.
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Roy_043
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Re: Draft WB: Please confirm intended behaviours

Post by Roy_043 »

catman wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:29 pm 1. The visual line widths
Line widths are in pixels, not mm.

catman wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:29 pm 2. Export to SVG
Create a drawing in the TechDraw Workbench and export that.

catman wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:29 pm 3. My testprint was about 15x10cm. When I exported that to PDF
Again, create a drawing in the TechDraw Workbench and export that. See Std_PrintPdf.

catman wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:29 pm 4. When the line width is set to something >10mm the visual 2D line does not change
Confirmed (but 10px is pretty wide already).

catman wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:29 pm 5. Line vs. Fill
Draft objects do not have the "Display Mode" "Shaded". You can use the Std_LinkMakeRelative command to create a SubLink from a face of a Draft object.

catman wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:29 pm 6. About the text tool "S"... Expected would be the height remains the same (3mm).
The Draft_ShapeString command is not intended for 'normal' texts, you would use Draft_Text for those. I have a different expectation from yours. I would not want a ShapeString to behave differently from, say, a Draft_Rectangle, where I expect the center of its contour to represent its true dimensions.

catman wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:29 pm 7. Move does not snap shapes to the working plane
I can't confirm. You need to give a more detailed scenario. Of course to snap to the working plane Draft_Snap_WorkingPlane must be ON.

catman wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:29 pm 8. Transform Tool
There was an issue where Transform would not work for ShapeStrings, but that has meanwhile been fixed.
Forum topic: https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=70050


BTW: In general it is best to create a separate topic for each issue.
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Roy_043
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Re: Draft WB: Please confirm intended behaviours

Post by Roy_043 »

thomas-neemann wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:56 pm in my experience this is

Bildschirmfoto_2022-07-30_21-51-44.png

the only snap option that ignores this option

Bildschirmfoto_2022-07-30_21-51-56.png
This has been fixed in V0.21. 'Side effect' of https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/pull/7132.
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thomas-neemann
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Re: Draft WB: Please confirm intended behaviours

Post by thomas-neemann »

Roy_043 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:57 pm ...This has been fixed in V0.21. 'Side effect' of https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/pull/7132.
thanks for your info. yes it works

Code: Select all

OS: Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS (XFCE/xubuntu)
Word size of FreeCAD: 64-bit
Version: 0.21.29811 (Git) AppImage
Build type: Release
Branch: master
Hash: c14347ce4195099a387e394395aa4936b41984b0
Python 3.10.5, Qt 5.15.4, Coin 4.0.0, Vtk 9.1.0, OCC 7.6.2
Locale: German/Germany (de_DE)
Gruß Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Thomas Neemann

https://www.youtube.com/@thomasneemann5 ... ry=freecad
catman
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Re: Draft WB: Please confirm intended behaviours

Post by catman »

Roy_043 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:59 pm
catman wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:01 pm Excellent. When I only set Snap to LOCK & SNAP_WORKPLANE & NEAR the parts are brought to the current plane.
As I understand Thomas's comment he is saying this combination does NOT work.
But I tested it and it DID work. :D
catman
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Re: Draft WB: Please confirm intended behaviours

Post by catman »

@Roy_043 thanks for taking the time and commenting each item. TechDraw in small files heavily impacts large assemblies (Asm3), but if its the only way.

Obviously some things in Draft work differently than expected. The greatest mis-expectation was that all line features are WYSIWYG thus have a geometrical width, they do not. I thought this to be the main difference to Sketcher. Without that use cases like mine, generally one could say "labeling" go from easy to quite hard. Line artwork in 3D does not match the output. Using Inkscape and import to FC looses all the great interactivity within FC, e.g. arrange markings around a part hole, update to modifications etc. So not the "easy" solution I hoped for, yet.

Roy_043 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:41 pm The Draft_ShapeString command is not intended for 'normal' texts, you would use Draft_Text for those.
OK, and it exports better to SVG as a string object. This brings a dilemma, however: To convert you need the correct font file, "S" can specify a local font file I keep with the project, "A" can not. Anyone to open the project or SVG must install any different/custom fonts in the OS first.

Roy_043 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:41 pm I have a different expectation from yours. I would not want a ShapeString to behave differently from, say, a Draft_Rectangle, where I expect the center of its contour to represent its true dimensions.
Indeed, I think the labeling use case has a different need.

For the sake of discussion I can offer this rationale.
I think this is a very common use case: Around my PC I can hardly see any Object which has no labeling on it. Today its a major part of a product finish like material, surface and color. Imho its a useful and needed part of CAD product development, thus the FreeCAD design workflow. CNC machines can ignore line widths, but digital color printers can not. They rasterize 1:1 what you give them: Where a box or a letter should be 10.2mm, its outline must be 10.2mm.
I think most (all) other places in FreeCAD do not need that, but I think that one place in FreeCAD should have that capability. Wouldn't Draft WB be that place?
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thomas-neemann
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Re: Draft WB: Please confirm intended behaviours

Post by thomas-neemann »

Roy_043 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:57 pm ...
This has been fixed in V0.21. 'Side effect' of https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/pull/7132.
the change means that you can no longer snap points in a point cloud or elements of a mesh. I think that's important. this was a big advantage of freecad over some commercial cad software. i use it frequently. Can anybody confirm this?

Code: Select all

OS: Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS (XFCE/xubuntu)
Word size of FreeCAD: 64-bit
Version: 0.21.29811 (Git) AppImage
Build type: Release
Branch: master
Hash: c14347ce4195099a387e394395aa4936b41984b0
Python 3.10.5, Qt 5.15.4, Coin 4.0.0, Vtk 9.1.0, OCC 7.6.2
Locale: German/Germany (de_DE)

edit


this
Bildschirmfoto_2022-08-01_12-19-48.png
Bildschirmfoto_2022-08-01_12-19-48.png (1.13 KiB) Viewed 893 times
also seems to work in a point cloud.


the problem with the mesh remains (for me).
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