Current mediawiki is outdated and has security issues

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bensay
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Re: Current mediawiki is outdated and has security issues

Post by bensay »

yorik wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:27 am We do that already.. But there are not many skilled with mediawiki AND willing to spend time on it...
What do you mean by skilled with MediaWiki? There is a visual editor available - I don't see what skills are needed?

Regarding using MediaWiki, it is to my opinion the far best. I see no advantages using Markdown and git - at least as many skills for this is needed as to edit MediaWiki if not more. I would be very sad, if the wiki moved to readthedocs or GitHub Markdown. Could you elaborate on how it is a "hard-to-manage dinosaur"?
yorik wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:14 am
Roy_043 wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:55 am For casual editors the Wiki is more accessible. Having to create a GitHub account to edit the new documentation will be a barrier for some.
They have to ask for a wiki account too. Which is far more annoying, one needs to first post on the forum, then send a DM, then an admin has to act...
Isn't this a concern of setup? That is because it is chosen that an admin has to act - and self sign up on the wiki isn't allowed. It is not just about a wiki and GitHub account; one using GitHub and Markdown also needs to learn how git works (not the commands, but what source control is, branches, remotes, pull requests, commits), install a program (Sourcetree, Github Desktop) and get stuck in different merge issues.
yorik wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:27 am
Simbioz wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:44 pm I may have overlooked it, but I did not happen to find a "discussion" section for each page on the github documentation.
No, but on the other hand we would have issues, could comment on commits, have pull requests...
Isn't this the exact issue that makes it more difficult to use than MediaWiki. We can't both say that skills are needed to edit a MediaWiki and then turn to another platform needing twice as many skills as to using a visual editor?
Last edited by bensay on Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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adrianinsaval
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Re: Current mediawiki is outdated and has security issues

Post by adrianinsaval »

bensay wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:41 pm What do you mean by skilled with MediaWiki? There is a visual editor available - I don't see what skills are needed?
he means maintaining the mediawiki instance in the server, this requires other skills
Could you elaborate on how it is a "hard-to-manage dinosaur"?
not for the user but for the maintainers
Isn't this a concern of setup? That is because it is chosen that an admin has to act - and self sign up on the wiki isn't allowed.
yes but allowing anyone to signup and start editing doesn't seem like a good idea.
also needs to learn how git works (not the commands, but what source control is, branches, remotes, pull requests, commits), install a program (Sourcetree, Github Desktop) and get stuck in different merge issues.
Not really, github allows online editing of files, you only need to learn markdown syntax which is pretty easy and then they walk you through the process of making a PR, automatically creating a branch and making a commit. That being said I too believe that mediawiki is easier to use for editors but if managing the wiki becomes unsustainable there's not much we can do about it unless someone volunteers to keep it working.
Isn't this the exact issue that makes it more difficult to use on MediaWiki
what are you talking about? AFAIK we don't use the wiki discussion tabs because nobody reads them.
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yorik
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Re: Current mediawiki is outdated and has security issues

Post by yorik »

the above reply says it all...
I also agree mediawiki is for now the most user-friendly, that's why it is still there, but have you tried editing a markdown file on github? Honestly I don't see much difference anymore...
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MisterMaker
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Re: Current mediawiki is outdated and has security issues

Post by MisterMaker »

We need comments under help pages, that is the easiest way to keep it up-to-date.
Otherwise you are always depended on an editor. Instead of random Joe with a login that say it doesn't work anymore.
Also those questions that normally go in the forum will go in the help system and be documented on the correct spot so anyone else can read it.
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yorik
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Re: Current mediawiki is outdated and has security issues

Post by yorik »

This would all actually be better with git... anyone can make pull requests, but it takes an admin/moderator to merge. Also, one can comment on changes, open issues, etc...
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MisterMaker
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Re: Current mediawiki is outdated and has security issues

Post by MisterMaker »

yorik wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:52 pm This would all actually be better with git... anyone can make pull requests, but it takes an admin/moderator to merge. Also, one can comment on changes, open issues, etc...
Could you enable it then :)
david69
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Re: Current mediawiki is outdated and has security issues

Post by david69 »

if we move to Git..., is it possible to do it to an opensource Git? I don't know this ecosystem so I am not able to suggest a good one.
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yorik
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Re: Current mediawiki is outdated and has security issues

Post by yorik »

Guys, we have already began moving to git. Of course it's open source. It would be unthinkable not to be..
It's all here: https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD-documentation

At the moment, this repo contains an automatic translation of the wiki. So, DON'T CREATE PRs THERE YET! It's just there for us to test how it looks, fix issues caused by the automatic wiki translation, and it's already used by FreeCAD help. If you want to edit anything, edit the wiki.

Later on, the day we unplug the wiki (if it happens), then we can go fully git, with all the git features, commenting, pull requests, issues...

But try editing one page at https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD-documentation , just to get a feel of the interface? (Just make sure you cancel instead of saving). Markdown has a couple less features than wiki markup, but for what we do with it I'd say 99% is there. The only real annoying missing point is templates, but I'm sure we can work around that...
david69
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Re: Current mediawiki is outdated and has security issues

Post by david69 »

ah github. I was thinking about something else:
https://opensource.com/article/20/11/op ... ves-github
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yorik
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Re: Current mediawiki is outdated and has security issues

Post by yorik »

github or anything else ;) gitlab, codeberg... Once it is git-managed, it is fully portable.
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