Wiki dispute resolution guidelines

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Simbioz
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Wiki dispute resolution guidelines

Post by Simbioz »

I know there is general discussion about Wiki rules, style guidelines etc. but this subject I am about to share is about specific guidelines in regards to wiki edition, most precisely, dispute resolution.
I have the perception that conflicts about wiki edition in a somewhat general sense are usual here, or at the very least it's an ongoing issue. Even though if I were completely wrong and all wiki editors are happy and chummy to each other, dispute resolution guidelines would still be an issue because they are not present in the wiki as far as my search skill have allowed to show me. If they are, and I am then just fooling around, please close and delete this topic and have my apologies.

So if you are still here it means those guidelines are not present in the wiki, I then propound to establish them. We can help us upon what has already been done. Indeed, Wikipedia has put together official and non-official conventions for resolving these issues (in italic are the remarks I have added):

  • General Dispute resolution guidelines which encompass pretty much all manners of resolving conflicts.
    • Negotiation: the cooperative process whereby participants try to find a solution that meets the legitimate interests of both parties. Some techniques are:
      • Consensus: Consensus does not mean unanimity (which is ideal but not always achievable), nor is it the result of a vote. Decision making and reaching consensus involve an effort to incorporate all editors' legitimate concerns, while respecting policies and guidelines.
      • Truce: While working on FreecadWiki, you may occasionally get into a dispute with another person. That person may seem like a troll or a hothead to you, but it's usually best to assume that you are dealing with a reasonable person who is simply confused on a particular issue or has a point of view different from your own. No matter what the problem is, flaming is not going to solve it. Try to reach a truce. Which according to Wikipedia, entails to:
        • Take it slow
        • Lead by example
        • Give the benefit of the doubt
        • Seek other opinions
      • Compromise process: To compromise is to make a deal between different parties where each party gives up part of their demand. In arguments, compromise is a concept of finding agreement through communication, through a mutual acceptance of terms—often involving variations from an original goal or desires. This is the least desirable outcome, so try to avoid it when possible.
    • Mediation: During mediation, a content dispute between two or more editors is subjected to the involvement of an uninvolved third party (who is the mediator). The role of the mediator is to guide discussion towards the formation of agreement over the disputed elements of content. You can ask any neutral editor to act as a mediator for you. You can also request mediation on FreecadWiki by using the :
      • Dispute Resolution Noticeboard: Informal place to resolve small content disputes as part of dispute resolution. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as requests for comment, or other noticeboards.
    • Third opinion: Third opinion (3O) is a means to request an outside opinion in a content or sourcing disagreement between two editors. When two editors do not agree, either editor may list a discussion here to seek a third opinion. The third opinion process requires observance of good faith and civility from both editors during the discussion in order to be successful.
    • Requests for comment (RfC): Is a process for requesting outside input concerning disputes, policies, guidelines or article content. RfCs are a way to attract more attention to a discussion about making changes to pages or procedures, including articles, essays, guidelines, policies, and many other kinds of pages. It uses a system of centralized noticeboards and random, bot-delivered invitations to advertise discussions to uninvolved editors. The normal talk page guidelines apply to these discussions.
      This probably needs the implementation of some bot system to deliver the invitations, it may be a mediawiki extension. The random set of editors is likely to be taken from the active wiki users set for obvious reasons.
    • Last resort Arbitration: If you have taken all other reasonable steps to resolve the dispute, and the dispute is not over the content of an article, you can request arbitration. Be prepared to show that you tried to resolve the dispute by other means. Arbitration differs from other forms of dispute resolution in that the Arbitration Committee will consider the case and issue a decision, instead of merely assisting the parties in reaching an agreement. If the issue is decided by arbitration, you will be expected to abide by the result. If the case involves serious user misconduct, arbitration may result in a number of serious consequences up to totally banning someone from editing, as laid out in the arbitration policy.
      This process requires an established:
      • Arbitration​ Committee
        • Probably composed by some of The Big Fish :D Founders, Core Developers, Moderators and one or two mere mortals. This committee could also rule over the forum?
        The Arbitration Committee could have the following duties and responsibilities:
        1. To act as a final binding decision-maker primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve;
        • (2.) To hear appeals from blocked, banned, or otherwise restricted users;
        • (3.) To resolve matters unsuitable for public discussion for privacy, legal, or similar reasons;
Needless to say, these guidelines must be adapted, expanded and improved for the freecad community.


So those are my two cents... and maybe some more!
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chrisb
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Re: Wiki dispute resolution guidelines

Post by chrisb »

Simbioz wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:25 am So those are my two cents... and maybe some more!
There is nothing wrong with your post, everybody will surely agree, but for my taste it is far too general. It is sort of the long version of "be nice to each other" and it doesn't take into account the special situation of a community project.

As a preface let me declare that most of the wiki stuff is done in a very friendly way where all parties are happy if things are going forward.

The rest can be difficult because we are in a dilemma: On one side we are a contributing to a community project. And on the other side we are individuals who have invested much thought and time in a certain page until it is near to perfect. And now comes someone else and changes this helpful, correct, concise and beautiful page.

It would be great to have a process for this concrete situation. My proposal for the FreeCAD community project is, to discuss it with the community.
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Simbioz
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Re: Wiki dispute resolution guidelines

Post by Simbioz »

chrisb wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:48 am
Simbioz wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:25 am
but for my taste it is far too general.
You can consider it a blueprint so as to be modifyed and expanded at the community discretion. The wikipedia policies are gigantic and go on and on forever so I thought you would not like that.
Last edited by Simbioz on Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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onekk
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Re: Wiki dispute resolution guidelines

Post by onekk »

Simbioz wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:19 am
chrisb wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:48 am
Simbioz wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:25 am
but for my taste it is far too general.
You cam consider it a blueprint so as to be modifyed and expanded at the community discretion. The wikipedia policies are gigantic and go on and on forever so I thought you would not like that.
I think that a part for "wiki editing permissions" for some "core pages" of the wiki it would be better to have a "responsible" of the page that has "modification right" and all the "friendly discussions" have to be made with him to make him to "edit the page".

I agree with the community nature of FC, but as wiki seem to became the main source of documentation of FC as there are project to integrate it in the "help system", some care have to be taken to avoid problems.

If passed to Github, an Issue about the "page" could be a good place to discuss things.

As usual my two cents.

Regards

Carlo D.
My English and Italian Scripting Guide https://github.com/onekk/freecad-doc.
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Simbioz
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Re: Wiki dispute resolution guidelines

Post by Simbioz »

chrisb wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:48 am
Simbioz wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:25 am
There is nothing wrong with your post, everybody will surely agree, but for my taste it is far too general.
...
My proposal for the FreeCAD community project is, to discuss it with the community.
I don't understand how to discuss it with the community is less general than a 13 items (with proper links further expanding each idea) guideline draft.
it doesn't take into account the special situation of a community project.
Wikipedia is not?

Anyway, you can modify it at your hearts contend, even ditch it completely, but please establish some guidelines for wiki reverts, edit wars and a way to deal with such and other related issues.
Wikipedia has the 3RR, 0RR and 1RR, for example the latter states that:

Code: Select all

An editor must not perform more than one revert on a single page—whether involving the same or different material—within a 24-hour period. An edit or a series of consecutive edits that manually reverses or undoes other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert. Violations of this rule often attract blocks of at least 24 hours. Two reverts just outside the 24-hour period will usually also be considered edit-warring, especially if repeated or combined with other edit-warring behavior. There are some exemptions. 
Vandalism and spam do not count as a revert and are thus exemptions.

Some non-official policies that help avoid these issues are: I am not saying we should adopt all these policies, hell, I am not saying we should adopt any of these. I just ask for the community to consider what another community organization has done to tackle these problems and take what is most useful to the Freecad community.

Peace ;)
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Roy_043
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Re: Wiki dispute resolution guidelines

Post by Roy_043 »

You have to keep in mind that we have a very small team. At any one time probably fewer than 5 editors will be active. We also have roughly the same number of active translators. We simply lack the 'critical mass' that I think would be required to make some of these Wikipedia policies work.
chrisb
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Re: Wiki dispute resolution guidelines

Post by chrisb »

Simbioz wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:49 pm
chrisb wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:48 am
Simbioz wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:25 am
There is nothing wrong with your post, everybody will surely agree, but for my taste it is far too general.
...
My proposal for the FreeCAD community project is, to discuss it with the community.
I don't understand how to discuss it with the community is less general than a 13 items (with proper links further expanding each idea) guideline draft.
I may have not been clear enough about the different levels we are talking about: what you obviously mean is to discuss the process, and that's what we are just doing here.

What I meant, was not about the process, but rather what should be done inside of the process. E.g. what should be done in case that a revert is not accepted: Then the case should be discussed with the community. Perhaps even every revert should be discussed there; that's at least what I would do.
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Re: Wiki dispute resolution guidelines

Post by adrianinsaval »

onekk wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:57 pm I think that a part for "wiki editing permissions" for some "core pages" of the wiki it would be better to have a "responsible" of the page that has "modification right" and all the "friendly discussions" have to be made with him to make him to "edit the page".
IMO there's not enough people for something like this, besides who wants to commit to such responsibilities for free? IMO it's too much to ask from volunteers.
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onekk
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Re: Wiki dispute resolution guidelines

Post by onekk »

It will be not very different from making PR on github for the official FC sources.

I think that proper documentation is important as proper source code.

Carlo D.
My English and Italian Scripting Guide https://github.com/onekk/freecad-doc.
My Blog: https://onekk-maker.blogspot.com/

To help development see on GitHub Page

For enquiry about customized FC Scripting job PM me.
adrianinsaval
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Re: Wiki dispute resolution guidelines

Post by adrianinsaval »

onekk wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:01 pm It will be not very different from making PR on github for the official FC sources.
Well we don't really have enough people for that either, see the pending PRs from 2019! And also the wiki crew is not the same as the dev crew. And it's not exactly the same either, on github some people take some responsibilities about some workbenches but anyone with write access can merge PRs for any file on the source code. Also in code we must have reviews and a limited set of trusted users because the code will run in many many machines so security is a concern, this is not the case in the wiki were we can afford to be more permissive and trust more people even if they know nothing about coding.
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