[announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

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uwestoehr
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Re: [Meeting minutes] Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by uwestoehr »

Zolko wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:57 am that's not how I remember it: the Document.xml file (in the FCStd archive) is not the problem, it's human readable, the problem is the accompanying ElementMap files, which are as human-readable as OCC's .brp files are: technically, they're plain text files, but the information they contain are meaningless. But while OCC's BRP files are documented, Toponaming's map files are not.
Thanks. Then I indeed misunderstood you. Now it should be more clear and @realthunder will make a proposal to improve this when we has time.
Zolko wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:57 am Did someone actually look into the files generated by the toponaming branch ?
Me not yet, since I only tested how the toponaming behaved for my use cases. Therefore it was good that several people gave it a try with different perspectives.
I think the meeting also revealed this. many thanks to every participant.
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Re: [Meeting minutes] Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by adrianinsaval »

Zolko wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:57 am realthunder's argument was that documentation was not needed because the source code was available, while my objection was that in 10 years time, if you wanted to open an old FreeCAD file, the source code for that old version of FreeCAD might not be available. Which means that either the file is self-explanatory and the format can be reverse-engineered easily, or extensive documentation is needed. Bit dumping thousands of lines of random ASCII characters is not acceptable for an open project.
We've been through this a million times, you don't actually need the toponaming data to open the file, also it is much more likely that the documentation for freecad may dissapear in ten years than it is for the source code to disappear. I don't mind getting documentation for this data, but I don't think this is a high priority or a requirement before merge.
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Re: [Meeting minutes] Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by uwestoehr »

adrianinsaval wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:37 pm We've been through this a million times...
We had one dedicated technical and fruitful meeting. We found a consensus and will follow this.
I can invite you for the next meeting if you have technical insights.

It is important to move on and a proper documentation can matter as we discussed. This topic is too complex to discuss this linearly in a forum, therefore we met.
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by wsteffe »

uwestoehr wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:26 pm We had one dedicated technical and fruitful meeting. We found a consensus and will follow this
According to uwestoehr minutes the only technical decision was enclosed in the following single statement that was immediately contested by Zolko:
realthunder will post in this thread what he will do to add more info to the XML output in order to make the XML files better human-readable

uwestoehr (the minute redactor) by his self admission has not understood what said in the meeting and now has changed the technical conclusion to better reflect the Zolko view clarified in his last post on this forum.
At the same time uwestoehr doesn't like to read any other opinion (like that expressed by adrianinsaval) in this forum pretending that the technical meeting (in which he did not understand what was being said) was the only appropriate place to discuss this complex argument.

So the next development activities regarding the toponaming issue will be driven by a technical meeting that was deserted (as usual) by all main project leaders (wmayer, yorik..) and whose participants did not understand each other.

What a poorly managed program !
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by user1234 »

wsteffe wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:25 am What a poorly managed program !
I do not know, if you was there or form where you come, but wtf is wrong with you?

Blaming in this way is not only bad behavior, that is a clearly sign of that

- you even do not know how to manage, because friction is normal and unavoidable if you work with more people, even in small groups
- you even seems never work in real life projects, since even then friction is unavoidable and if you think, that is not happens in your area, then it is the sign, that you are the friction element for others

Blaming this way is typical a signs of not understanding management and complexities and a typical populist plebs behavior where typical as here, no solution is offered, or even, at least it seems so since i do not see any commit of you, even work on this!
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by wsteffe »

First line of user1234 post includes insults which should be forbiden by FreeCad Code Of Conduct and I think also punishable by low.
I Would like to ask Forum moderators to take notice of that and to take the appropriate countermeasures.
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by user1234 »

wsteffe wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:16 am I Would like to ask Forum moderators to take notice of that and to take the appropriate countermeasures.
Your whole post is one insult, the difference is, that the your is passive aggressive, the meaning is much worse.
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by wsteffe »

user1234 wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:23 am Your whole post is one insult
Excluding the last sentence (which is an opinion) all my post was a mere description of facts.
Claiming that one is an insulter for having reported facts recalls to me those which prohibit to say that a war is a war and want to call it a special operation.
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by user1234 »

wsteffe wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:43 am Excluding the last sentence (which is an opinion) all my post was a mere description of facts.
You quote text, but as always you have to interpret the context. Only one point of the meeting here is claimed (i do not konw how many the had, but sure rmore then one), and there are here at minimum 4 different native languages. That a misunderstood here raises, can absolutely happen. Even when i remember my last meeting in the same languages or that before, with two native languages, you can not simply clear all points to 100% friction free and without someone else interpret it in an different way (especially in different native languages are included). Call that bad management is in fact wrong. When much more raises and developments stops (or slows down) you maybe can call it bad management, but that is not the case here.

Atm there are are so many commits here, i can not remember when is was more. Maybe the impacts are not that extreme more, but that is often, because FreeCAD is grown that big, that you maybe can not notice it anymore, because you only use small parts from it.


wsteffe wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:43 am Claiming that one is an insulter for having reported facts recalls to me those which prohibit to say that a war is a war and want to call it a special operation.
As always text, but no context (or better, out of context).
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by wsteffe »

user1234 wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:10 am Only one point of the meeting here is claimed (i do not konw how many the had, ...
OK may be you haven't read the complete "meeting minutes" reported by uwestoehr. Here follows a copy of it:
Outcome:
- @realthunder will post in this thread what he will do to add more info to the XML output in order to make the XML files better human-readable
- After this change has been made, @realthunder will add the toponaming feature to PartDesign
- then there will be the second release of a toponaming branch build
- about 2 weeks after this release we will meet again to decide the process how to merge toponaming into the master branch
So there was 4 points (not very many). But only the first two deal with techical aspects. And only the first of the two is really new.
In fact we alredy know about the need to add the toponaming code for PartDesign.

Here there are two possibilities
1) There where (possibly many) more points discussed in the meeting which were not reported in the minutes.
2) This is the correct list of points.

If the first one were true I would anyway conclude that this meeting were bad managed.
But, having a positive attitude, I prefere to think that the second is true, that is that this is the true list. The first point in the list is the only one with new technical content that was discussed (without mutual comprehension) in meeting.

I may understand that are different languages and ... But how may then uwestoehr say that that the meeting was so fruitful that any further technical discussion should be dealt in this kind of (babele) meeting refusing to accept any opinion expressed directly in this forum.
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